Just getting started

[Shlazor]

I have been watching unRaid evolve over quite some time and it is very impressive.

 

I believe that I want to build a unRaid server to run NextCloud as a private cloud.  I have configured NextCloud successfully on the Amazon cloud and now I believe that it is time for me to take the plunge into a private cloud.

 

I would also like the ability to configure additional virtual desktops /machines, primarily in Windows but occasionally in Linux as well.

 

From a storage perspective, we design boats and therefore have tens of thousands of engineering files that we maintain and I would like to sync with the private NextCloud.  I was thinking of three 4TB drives to get up and running.  I would like to have expandability to at least double the number of drives without swapping out the underlying system.   When / if storage becomes a problem, then swapping out drives with bigger drives would most likely be my course of action.

 

It seems to me that the virtual desktop machines require more processor power / memory than the cloud server but. I could be wrong.

 

I would like a case that has plenty of cooling capacity but yet can hold 6 drives (preferably in a hot swappable manner. [and be small enough to grab and go in an emergency]

 

I would prefer to run Intel as I have only had one computer in my life that was AMD based.  There was never a problem with it but still Intel would be my preference.

 

I sure could use some help with selection of components [Case, Mobo, Processor, Memory, etc.]  I don't really have a budget in mind.  I just need to spend whatever it takes without going too overkill overboard.

 

Thanks for the help...  I used to be much more technical than I am.  Now, I can tell you a whole lot more about boat design than I can about system design.

[tdallen]

Hello and welcome.

 

11 minutes ago, Shlazor said:

It seems to me that the virtual desktop machines require more processor power / memory than the cloud server but. I could be wrong.

Yes, that's true and a critical decision point.  In fact, the hardware recommendation will be quite different if you only want a NAS/Cloud server vs. something capable of running VMs.  Can you go into more detail there?  Things like how many VMs running at the same time, what will you do with them, how much memory do you think they'll need, do they need to perform well, do you want to sit in front of them or use a remote desktop solution to remote into them?

[Shlazor]

Wow!  Thanks for the fast reply. 

 

I could see maybe one to two VMs.  One for software testing and the other for...

 

I don't really know if what I want to do is even possible so I will throw it out here as an example.

 

I design boats on a high-end laptop.  Right now it has a problem and needs to go in for service.  That can take as long as seven days.  I would like to have a spare "machine" configured so that when situations like this occur, I can use a pre-configured "machine".  It certainly doesn't have to run with the same capabilities as my laptop but it does need to function in a manner that would get me through the service period.  I would suppose that to make performance as good as it can be, I would sit in front of it.  With that said, when I work with my customers, I use a screen sharing product to allow me to share my screen with them so they can offer input into the boats I design for them.  With most people, the performance is surprisingly good.  Therefore, remoting in just might be a possibility as well.

Thoughts?

[tdallen]

Well, you'd have to remote in from another machine - from the sound of it, if your laptop is in for repairs you'd want to sit at a keyboard and monitor connected to your server?  If you'd be using another machine or laptop, with the server stuffed in a closet that's relevant.

 

unRAID doesn't require much CPU horsepower or memory to run as a basic NAS.  A Pentium G4600 and 8GB of RAM is all you need to get started for a NAS and a Docker or two like NextCloud.  As you add additional Dockers (applications) you start graduating up into the Core i3 or Core i5 and 16GB of RAM.  VMs is where it gets interesting.  You're asking one machine to do the work of two or more machines, so you have to provision it accordingly.  Typically you want at least a Core i7 or Xeon E3, and if you want to run multiple VMs then the Xeon E5 makes sense.  RAM commonly goes up to 32GB or more.  Since you're looking for a "standby" VM you might not need to go crazy... FYI, Intel is releasing a bunch of new chips - the references here are to currently available models.

 

On the issue of how you access the VM...  Many VMs run in the background doing work - the user interface isn't important.  In these cases you'd use another machine to remote into the VM to take control of it as needed.  But, unRAID also supports hardware pass through, also known as VT-d or IOMMU.  This allows you to "pass" a high performance piece of hardware like a graphics card into a VM, allowing for the use of applications with high performance requirements that require direct use of the hardware.  All this requires very modern hardware, though, and an enthusiast level of interest - it definitely works well but it isn't consumer level plug and play.  Does your laptop and the design software you use have/require/make use of a high end graphics chip?

[Shlazor]

Thanks again,

 

The current laptop does have high end graphics but my previous one didn't and I used it for five years.   As I said, I used to be very technical and I currently still write code for managing all of the bills of materials for the boats.  It is tens of thousands of lines of code so I can certainly develop an enthusiast level of interest.    I assumed going in that a decently powerful i7 with a bunch of memory.   Regarding the vTD / IOMMU, I have NO familiarity with.  I can't wait to get started.  I certainly don't want to by motherboards and processors that have no chance to do what I want to do.

 

Now it is time to get specific!  I really appreciate your time!

[tdallen]

Core i7 processors have traditionally been 4 core processors, with hyperthreading.  The newest Coffee Lake processors, announced two weeks ago, will have 6 cores in the 1151 socket.  This will potentially be very nice for people running virtual machines.

[Shlazor]

So, I started looking at pricing and availability of Coffee Lake processors and compatible mobos.  Certainly within the price range that is doable.  How much memory should I start out with?  Is 16MB sufficient?  Not even close?  Thoughts?

[tdallen]

I'd probably go with 32.  How much does your laptop have?  unRAID needs at least 4 for basic NAS and 8 is better.  Plus there is some overhead with virtualization. 

[Shlazor]

It has 16 and that is not enough for the way I use it sometimes however, if I am using the VM in a pinch, I am willing to put up with slightly degraded performance.

 

Just yesterday, I needed something from my laptop and I didn't have it with me.  I had to talk my wife through setting it up to allow me to remote in and get what I needed.  I actually had to manipulate a file with my CAD software and then send it to someone via email.  Had I had the unRaid server yesterday, I probably could have done all that from my phone.

 

I want this.  I just watched nearly every video on the Lime-Tech site.  This technology is amazing.  

 

tdallen, do you have disks in an external device connected somehow to the unRaid server or are they all internal?    

 

Also, if you have multiple unRaid devices in different physical locations, are there mechanisms to allow them to sync?  (Just thinking down the road)

[tdallen]

I've got everything internal and I'd say that's preferred but folks make external enclosures work.  That said, you want to be SATA based rather than USB - USB is Ok for the occasional Unassigned Device but doesn't have the error handling necessary to be part of array long term.  Hot swap bays are ideal - messing with cables when replacing a failed drive tends to cause as many problems as it solves.  There are rsync options, plugin and Docker, to keep servers synced.  

 

If you want to give your VM 16GB, then I'd put 32GB in the server.

[Shlazor]

I assume that I am going to run NextCloud in a VM as well.  Correct?  That, however is an Linux VM.  I assume that automatically makes it more efficient.  Is that true?  How much memory should I allow for that?

 

tdallen, I really do appreciate your time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tdallen]

Most applications like NextCloud now run as Dockers, which is a virtualization solution with much lower overhead than a VM.  Your best bet is to install Community Applications which is essentially the app store for unRAID.  From there you will be able to find a wide variety of Dockers, including Linuxserver.io NextCloud .

[Shlazor]

I guess I really don't understand the differentiation between Docker and a VM.  Is it a safe assumption that all Dockers are native Linux apps with some kind of "wrapper"?

 

Is there a good place to read about this capability?

Edited October 23, 2017 by Shlazor

[tdallen]

Google Docker.  The implementation on unRAID is lightweight, Linux on Linux virtualization - much lower overhead than a VM.

[Shlazor]

I did that already and, I can't say that I totally understand it, but it looks very cool!

 

I think that I have selected my hardware.  If you were willing to have a look at it, I could submit a bunch of links.

[tdallen]

Sure, post 'em up.

[Shlazor]

Case:   https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119260

 

Power Supply:  https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151186

 

MOBO:   https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813119037

 

CPU:  https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117826&cm_re=coffee_lake_processor-_-19-117-826-_-Product  (when available)

 

Memory:   https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233865

 

Drive Enclosure:  https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817998238

 

Parity Drive:  https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822179003

 

[tdallen]

Looks good. Of course we don't have any real track record yet for the 370 motherboards but I've used Asus many times before.  Is the memory on the Asus HCL for that board?  I'm glad to see you are using hot swap cages, if you want higher density the Supermicro CSE-M35T-1B have been working well for folks.  

 

There re have been some amazingly good deals on the WD Easystore 8TB, which contains a WD Red and can be shucked - its worth looking for.  I think they have been as low as $169?

[Shlazor]

It took me awhile but I finally did it.  Had a busy year, health-wise.  Very cool stuff indeed.  Working on getting past the learning curve.  Slow but steady.