First build

[gambcl]

Hi folks,

 

I am just in the process of ordering components for a new system and would love any advice from more experience Unraid users. This will be my first time using Unraid, I was weighing up between Freenas and Unraid, but I think Unraid is a better fit for my needs.

 

The system will be replacing an existing Drobo 5N and a small server, I am trying to consolidate into a more powerful machine that can be upgraded well into the future and give me more options to play with in terms of dockers, VMs, etc. One of the main uses will be as a Plex media server, but that is not the only use, I would also like to play around with VMs, etc.

 

Here is my list so far:

• Lian Li D8000 case
• 10 x Lian Li BP2SATA hot-swap backplanes (2 drives each)
• Seasonic Prime Titanium 1000W
• Supermicro X10DRi-T motherboard
• 64GB ECC DDR4 memory
• Intel Xeon E5-2680 v4 14-core CPU (one to start with, can add another later)
• Noctua UH-12S CPU cooler
• Noctua case/drive fans
• 3 x LSI 9207-8i SAS controller
• 2 x 1TB SSDs for cache pool
• SSDs for appdata, Plex
• WD Red 8TB for storage array parity, data drives

 

I think that lot should handle my needs pretty well, with plenty of power and room for extending in the future.

 

I have been reading as much as possible, but I still have the following questions:

 

1) Anything obviously wrong with the above components?

 

2) What happens when the cache-pool is full? Does it just slow down to the speed of the array, or does it error?

 

3) I was planning to separate my cache drive from the storage areas used by dockers, VMs, etc. and maybe also put my Plex database on its own SSD.

I know the SSD cache pool will be using BTRFS across 2 SSDs for safety, but what filesystem should I use for my appdata SSD drives? Can I create a separate drive with RAID1 or something for my appdata? Or should I just use single SSD drives for appdata (with no protection) and get them backed up to the array overnight?

 

4) Burn-in and testing, what should I be doing as soon as I set the thing up?

 

Thanks for any help,

 

Charlie

 

Edited September 19, 2017 by gambcl
Added BP2SATA hot-swap backplanes to components list. Changed to LSI 9207-8i SAS controller.

[tdallen]

Looks like a good build.  For burn-in, pre-clearing the drives will make sure everything is stable.  If the cache pool fills up writes should start going to the array.

 

Personally, I don't cache writes to the array, though.  I'm not usually sitting waiting, so the fact that writes to the array are slower doesn't matter much.  And, if speed matters I turn on Turbo Write and get nearly 1GB line speeds.  I use the cache drive strictly for Dockers and Docker data (and a VM image when I'm playing around).  A more common situation is use dedicated SSDs for VMs.

[SSD]

I'd late a look at your case selection. The #1 problem people have is cabling related. Swapping out or adding a disk invariably requires touching cables to other drives, and it is all to easy to knock one slightly askew and create an intermittent connection.

 

Highly recommend hot swap bays like the CSE-M35T-1B, and a case that would support several of them. You are buying 2 sixteen drive controllers, and with 30 or more drives, this is going to be hugely important. With that many drives, even moving it will be a big challenge, and hot swap allows unloading and relaxing the drives easily.

 

Good luck! 

[gambcl]

tdallen: Thanks for that, I will be pre-clearing, so I guess that should give everything a workout. I would also like to use dedicated SSDs for my VMs, etc, and just leave the cache-pool purely as a write-cache. Hopefully not too hard to do.

 

bjp999: Thanks again, I forgot to mention in my component list that I am also getting the BP2SATA backplanes for this case, so there will be no fiddling with cables. I chose this case because where I am putting it, it is not convenient for the longer server rack cases (in terms of front-to-back depth) so I wanted a large case with wheels, and one that could take hot-swap connections to drives. Not sure which controller to buy yet, I was looking at the 9305-16i because it is up-to-date, fast, supported, and will only need 2 slots to support all the drives. However they are expensive in the UK and seem hard to find at the moment, so I might get 3 x 9207-8i cards instead.

[tdallen]

Not to mention, but the OP also needs room for an E-ATX motherboard so that limits the case options... 

[SSD]

I am not sure that the 9305's are supported anyway. You might look at the 9201-16i, a PCIe 2.0 x8.controller that is a bit cheaper and is definitely supported. If the 9305's are supported, there is a -24i version. Maybe one of those would do ya?

 

[Lev]

@gambcl welcome! very nice system you spec'ed, it'll work no doubt, just depends how much trade-off you want to take for function over appearance.

 

First question I have.. is this computer going in a room where you'll have to see it everyday? Is that why the LianLi choice?

 

I'm going to assume you're answer is yes, and that you also want it to be quiet, that's why the noctua fans.

 

I'm not understanding the 'long server cases' comment, cause it's in conflict as @tdallen pointed out with your motherboard choice. E-ATX cases are usually deep. What's you're space requirements? Can you provide a measurement and some photo's?

 

I have some better suggestions but depending on your answers for the above questions, you might rule them out rather easily. It's great you posted here for help though, cause this setup you posted here is making some major tradeoffs, especially in cabling as @bjp999 pointed out. The BP2SATA backplanes are not the right solution. I can't stress to you enough how much of a headache cabling will be even using those.

 

I remember when I got to 10 drives in a single tower case and I finally called it quits and moved to chassis with real backplanes, what a difference it made. How many drives you running? It's not listed in your specs but those 16i adapters have me thinking you're far beyond the point of using tower cases.

[gambcl]

34 minutes ago, Lev said:

@gambcl welcome! very nice system you spec'ed, it'll work no doubt, just depends how much trade-off you want to take for function over appearance.

 

First question I have.. is this computer going in a room where you'll have to see it everyday? Is that why the LianLi choice?

 

I'm going to assume you're answer is yes, and that you also want it to be quiet, that's why the noctua fans.

 

The location I will be keeping it in is an under-stairs cupboard. It's kind of like a half-height closet, it's about 2m wide, 0.75m deep and has a doorway 120cm tall and 58cm wide. There are some narrow shelves on the back wall, which I may take out if I really need to.

This is kind of centrally placed in my house and it's where I have my network switch, with cables going off to various rooms. So the case won't be visible day-to-day, unless I have it out for maintenance, but noise is a concern because if it has screaming fans they will be heard all over the house, especially at night.

 

34 minutes ago, Lev said:

 

I'm not understanding the 'long server cases' comment, cause it's in conflict as @tdallen pointed out with your motherboard choice. E-ATX cases are usually deep. What's you're space requirements? Can you provide a measurement and some photo's?

 

I did first want a 8U or 12U rack and a server rack case but the cases I saw were all very deep (and very noisy) and I really want to have something on wheels that I can move in and out when I need to work on it, and I was concerned that with such a long server chassis (many were around 70cm long) I would not be able to get it through the door and positioned inside. The Lian Li D8000 is only 572mm deep front-to-back and it comes with wheels, and will fit through the doorway and take a E-ATX motherboard. I did read quite a few reviews of the case and many people loved how spacious it was inside, making it easy to work on, and it has lots of places for fans, giving good & quiet cooling. So it sounded like the best tower option for me once I had ruled out the long server cases because of the size/noise.

 

 

34 minutes ago, Lev said:

 

I have some better suggestions but depending on your answers for the above questions, you might rule them out rather easily. It's great you posted here for help though, cause this setup you posted here is making some major tradeoffs, especially in cabling as @bjp999 pointed out. The BP2SATA backplanes are not the right solution. I can't stress to you enough how much of a headache cabling will be even using those.

 

I remember when I got to 10 drives in a single tower case and I finally called it quits and moved to chassis with real backplanes, what a difference it made. How many drives you running? It's not listed in your specs but those 16i adapters have me thinking you're far beyond the point of using tower cases.

 

I guess I'm not seeing the issue with the cabling, yes I completely agree that using normal cables directly into the back of the drive will cause problems, but in this case I will have a backplane behind each drive with cables attached to that, so the drives just push in from the front. I thought it looked fairly safe and low-maintenance.

 

I should point out that I don't see me taking drives in and out very often. I will be starting out with 2 parity drives and 5 storage drives (all 8TB), which is a big increase in storage for me (currently using a 5-bay Drobo with 5x4TB drives), so I will only be adding a new drive when necessary and replacing dead drives. The case and system is really specced to allow for easy future expansion with plenty of space for extra drives, as and when I need them.

 

Regarding the controller, @bjp999 did warn me that the 9305's might not be supported, so I have started a new thread asking for anyone with success stories with that controller, and none so far, so I will probably be using 3 of the 9207-8i instead, which gives me enough to cover the 20 HDDs in the 3.5" bays and I can still put a 4in3 drive cage in the 5.25 bays if I want to.

 

Thanks for posting, I was really wrestling with the decision of rack or tower for a few weeks, but I just couldn't see how the deep rack would fit, so this case seemed the best option for my wishlist of size, noise, easy movement, and future expansion.

 

[Lev]

Great reply, you won't see it so looks don't matter, but noise does. Got it!

 

I've got some comments to make which I'll write more about but quickly... would a half height 4 post rack on casters work in that space? Take a look at this list and see if any would apply. If so, you're options just got a WHOLE lot better! =D

 

https://www.startech.com/Server-Management/Racks/?filter_FRAMETYPE=Open+Frame&filter_RACKTYPE=4-Post&filter_WALLMOUNT_YN=No

 

Even if not, I still have something awesome to consider. But let me know cause going rack mount will rock your world!

[Lev]

One last thing, don't worry about USD and the price in the UK, like I said, just need to know something like that would PHYSICALLY work in the space you have.

[tdallen]

The Lian Li backplanes work nicely.  Expensive, but nice.  I wish there was more of a click/lock type connection for the drive and obviously externally accessible hot swap bays are a lot more convenient and fully avoid cabling issues.  But if you are committed to a case where external hot swap isn't an option, the Lian Li internal hot swap backplanes are a nice option.

[Lev]

Got it, it's the door that's the problem, not the space within once you're pass the door. Those 4 post racks won't work.

 

However what will work for you is what I first built long ago, before I had a rack. I bought a 4U rack mount server chassis and just stood it up vertically like a a tower. I made some feet for it out of wood, some 2x4's (sorry not sure what you call those in UK) but you need feet on casters, like the picture I attached. You could build that for like 10 quid easy. With that, wow, you'd be able to buy a supermicro 24bay chasis ready to go vs. what you'd spend on that LianLi and it's be WAYYYYYY better! Real backplanes, hot swap PSU's the works!!!

 

I really should take some pics of the Norco 4224 I have with my 2x4 wood feet, how embarrassing. But it worked amazing! Then one day, I was able to get a 42U rack, and took the stupid wood feet of and mounted it. Wow, what an awesome feeling that was.

 

 

[gambcl]

7 minutes ago, Lev said:

One last thing, don't worry about USD and the price in the UK, like I said, just need to know something like that would PHYSICALLY work in the space you have.

 

Ah Startech, I have spent much time reading their specs these last few weeks :-)

Unfortunately I can't see anything that would fit through the door AND allow me to position it inside the space, i.e. they are so wide/deep that there won't be enough room to turn the rack. If there was something that was no deeper than 58cm then I could push it through the door sideways, and once through the door I can slide it left into the available space without turning it, but I haven't seen a rack that would fit, and the server chassis themselves are usually longer than that too.

 

The Startech 12U "adjustable depth rack" looked promising, but it is still 590x600 footprint, so it won't go sideways and not sure if it would rotate.

 

I did search for "short-depth" server racks, found some iStarUSA stuff. I thought I could have a JBOD style chassis just for the data drives, and then a separate short-depth chassis for the main motherboard, but the empty JBOD chassis was hideously expensive for my needs.

 

What case did you have in mind?

 

Getting late here, so I'll catch up with replies in the morning, thanks all.

[Lev]

20 minutes ago, gambcl said:

Getting late here, so I'll catch up with replies in the morning, thanks all.

In the morning see if the picture of the little platform on wheels works for your setup. If so my chassis I use now, which you may be able to find on ebay, would work in that space you have. It's FAR superior to the config you're thinking of.

 

My chassis (although for your needs I'd recommend the 24 bay, not the 36bay I have, unless you want to make some compromises)

 

https://www.supermicro.com/products/system/4U/6047/SSG-6047R-E1R36L.cfm

 

 

 

 

[gambcl]

On 9/19/2017 at 1:37 AM, Lev said:

In the morning see if the picture of the little platform on wheels works for your setup. If so my chassis I use now, which you may be able to find on ebay, would work in that space you have. It's FAR superior to the config you're thinking of.

 

My chassis (although for your needs I'd recommend the 24 bay, not the 36bay I have, unless you want to make some compromises)

 

https://www.supermicro.com/products/system/4U/6047/SSG-6047R-E1R36L.cfm

 

 

Thanks @Lev it is certainly something I hadn't thought of, however I think I will try the Lian Li D8000 first because it ticks more of my boxes.

 

I have been researching those server rack cases and they all sound very noisy to me, they are built to be running their fans at high rpms, some of them are real screamers. Also, from a practical point of view, if I can't wheel my rack through the door, then whenever I want to tweak the hardware I will have to manhandle the server case out of the rack and onto the wheeled base you mentioned. I can imagine how heavy these cases get once they are loaded up with drives, so I think that is just an accident waiting to happen.

 

To start with I will try the D8000, which I'm hoping will be easily moveable and also allow good, quiet cooling. I'll do a build log if anyone's interested, with photos, so others can see this case in action.

 

If I have any problems with that case then I'm open to trying a proper rack, but for the weight/access reasons mentioned above I might try to put the drives into a separate JBOD chassis, and the motherboard/CPU in its own chassis, because that is the one that I would be likely to need access to and it should be much easier to get in/out without the drives in it.

[Lev]

@gambcl Best wishes on your coming adventure, please keep us updated and take some pictures! Curious to see how you tackle the cabling inside... and from the outside, it'll be one good looking unRAID server!