Problematic Search


noja

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So I'm feeling like I'm missing something obvious when it comes to the search function.  As someone that typically just comes to the forums to troubleshoot, that search box is key for me.  Specifically, I've had a hell of a time figuring out how to search a single thread and not the forums globally.  Even under advanced search, I can't seem to find something that says "search current topic/thread only."  I'm sure I'm missing something completely obvious.  

 

Additionally, I'm wondering what I'm missing when it comes to searching by keyword.  Like today, Tapatalk's email roundup highlighted a post about someone's new desk build.  Of course their link only goes to the front page of the fourms, so I searched for "new desk build" - no hits.  Then I searched for the same under advanced search with the "keyword" search enabled - no hits.  Finally I went back to the email, noticed the title of the post was "unRAID Desk Build."  That search worked.  But requiring that level of specificity seems fairly counterproductive to problem solving by using the search function.  

 

Sorry to ask the dumb question, but what am I missing? 

 

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When I click the search box a drop-down defaulting to "All Content" appears to the left of the text field. Changing it to "This Topic" limits the search to ... this topic! :)

 

The new desk build search is a bit weird. Seems like it gets converted to new+desk+build. Replace that text on the search page with new desk build and your unRAID Desk Build will be in the search results... :S

 

Edit:

More specifically, if I enter new desk build in the small top right search box, I get sent to:

https://forums.lime-technology.com/search/?type=all&q=new+desk+build

Entering new desk build in the big search box on that page sends me to:

https://forums.lime-technology.com/search/?&q=new%20desk%20build

I would expect different search boxes to behave the same way, so absolutely a bug.

Edited by gubbgnutten
Added example URLs
  • Upvote 1
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Alright! See, I knew it was going to be a case of me missing something obvious.  To salvage a little dignity though, I'll stand by my comment that having to remove the + signs is a little weird.  But I'm super appreciative of the workaround! 

 

Thanks again

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3 hours ago, jonp said:

We will need to open a ticket with IPS on this.  Thanks for all the info as it will greatly help them in finding + debugging this.

Its not a bug, nor is it a problem.

 

When entering in multi-word searches, IPS assumes (rightfully) that you want to find threads that have all the words in it in order.

 

IE:  Search for this is a test (this+is+a+test) yields 3 pages of results

 

Searching for this is a test and then changing it to this is a test (get rid of the +'s) yields 924 pages of results because it'll do an OR search, and find any of the words present in any posting.  (It even outright says that its doing an OR search when removing the +'s)

 

 

Untitled.png

Edited by Squid
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22 hours ago, Squid said:

Its not a bug, nor is it a problem.

 

When entering in multi-word searches, IPS assumes (rightfully) that you want to find threads that have all the words in it in order.

 

IE:  Search for this is a test (this+is+a+test) yields 3 pages of results

 

Searching for this is a test and then changing it to this is a test (get rid of the +'s) yields 924 pages of results because it'll do an OR search, and find any of the words present in any posting.  (It even outright says that its doing an OR search when removing the +'s)

 

 

Untitled.png

 

Thanks for catching this.  I honestly thought it sounded a little odd at first, but was going to open a ticket anyway.  This makes sense though...

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On 3/29/2017 at 11:33 PM, Squid said:

Its not a bug, nor is it a problem.

 

When entering in multi-word searches, IPS assumes (rightfully) that you want to find threads that have all the words in it in order.

 

IE:  Search for this is a test (this+is+a+test) yields 3 pages of results

 

Searching for this is a test and then changing it to this is a test (get rid of the +'s) yields 924 pages of results because it'll do an OR search, and find any of the words present in any posting.  (It even outright says that its doing an OR search when removing the +'s)

 

 

Untitled.png

 

It is a case of bad design. Really bad design. Two connected search fields should not behave completely different.

 

Could you please enlighten me, where does it outright say that it is doing an OR search? All I can see on your picture is that it suggests searching for this OR is OR a OR test instead of the current text this is a test, not that it performed an OR search for the current text. This design clearly suggests that it did not just perform an OR search.

 

Granted, clicking on the OR suggestion leads to a page where the search field is filled in with this is a test and familiar results, only differing in the url where search_and_or=or was appended. In this case it doesn't list this OR is OR a OR test as a suggestion anymore. Oh, and expanding the More search options in this case correctly has "Contain any of my search term words" checked. But what about the initial this is a test with removed +'s? Expanding More search options there had "Contain all of my search term words" checked...

 

Probably only the tip of the iceberg, the IPS folks should have spent way more time thinking about how to design the search functionality+interface instead of rushing this piece of c...ode. :P

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Respectfully, disagree.

 

If I'm searching for this is a test  I would expect it to find all those words in the criteria within the results (and as the example points out, removing the implied AND (+) gives an obscene amount of results.   Sure, as of now this thread will still show up on the first page with an OR (but it's no longer the top result, as the Ryzer thread has overtaken it, and it will only fall as other threads include those words).   And yes, I misread my own posted pic -> you are correct on that score)  

 

The term that it comes up read out in english is this plus is plus a plus test.  The implication is still to search individual words to remove the plusses.  I just don't see the problem with how it operates.  The results coincide with the search term, and the search box that you are entering in a phrase into is working correctly in my opinion.  

 

Perhaps it would be easier for you to just click the Search icon and then enter in the terms (which means you won't have to remove the plusses).

 

Personally, I don't see an issue.  If LT is capable of automatically setting it to an OR search, then so be it.  I would adjust with no loss of sleep.

 

EDIT: And the old forum software operated similarly.  It defaulted to match all words instead of match any word. 

Edited by Squid
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Well, let's agree to disagree. Or agree to agree. Or disagree to disagree. I'm actually not even sure what you so respectfully are disagreeing with...

 

I'm not the one having a problem searching, and I am absolutely not saying that OR should be the default or that AND is not what most people would expect. What I am saying that the IPS folks made really really really bad decisions when designing the search interface. I don't see any easy overall fix, especially not one that would not break things for all users that have adapted to the current design.

 

You keep promoting AND as the reasonable default search. I am not disputing that at all. But just imagine for a moment that both search fields had interpreted this is a test as an AND search and requiring explicit this OR is OR a OR test for OR search (almost never used anyway, right?). Then the two linked fields would have behaved consistently. I mean, there is no implicit OR in this is a test, if anything it would be an implicit AND, so why mess with + at all here?

 

More fun with searches: Using the small search field to search for "this is a test" gets converted to "this+is+a+test" which unlike "this is a test" does not have any matches. :P

 

All right, enough for now. Keep disagreeing, keep imagining I'm promoting OR, whatever makes you happy. I've taken up enough of people's time ranting about bad design decisions that are unlikely to get corrected. :D

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9 minutes ago, gubbgnutten said:

More fun with searches: Using the small search field to search for "this is a test" gets converted to "this+is+a+test" which unlike "this is a test" does not have any matches. :P

That is an issue with IPS, as quoting the text on any other search engine explicitly specifies an AND search, but IPS is seaching for the quotes as part of the word.  That makes zero sense.

 

12 minutes ago, gubbgnutten said:

All right, enough for now.

I was looking for a way out of the debate also...

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