wisem2540 Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 The i7-6700k is about 310 dollars with a passmark about 10,000 the motherboard for the dual 2670 build is about 350 dollars. (90 dollar cpu) a single 2670 appears to have a passmark around 12,000, and I could add a second for under 100 dollars. Am I missing something here or is the dual build just that great of a deal? Quote Link to comment
garycase Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 The used E5-2670's are indeed an excellent value and have very good performance. A single 2670 has a PassMark of 12426, a pair score 18531 ... and you can indeed buy a motherboard plus a pair of 2670's at a very attractive price. HOWEVER, be aware that you're buying CPU's that were released nearly 5 years go, with a TDP of 112w (224w for a pair) ... and the supporting chipsets aren't nearly as efficient as those built for the newer generation processors. Overall, the power consumption will be appreciably higher than current generation system, and the cooling needs signifcantly more aggressive. If the size of the chassis and motherboard and the 4-generation older components aren't of concern, it's indeed a very cost effective way to build a system with a lot of cores and pretty high Passmark. I wouldn't really compare it to an i7-based setup ... if you're going to compare it to a new system, I'd at least use an equivalent server-grade comparison => e.g. either an E3-1280 v5 (PassMark 10502, ~ $600); or an E5-1650v3 (PassMark 13467, ~ $600). Yes, the newer setup would cost a few hundred more ... but it would use FAR less power (especially at idle); support all of the newest technologies; use much faster memory; and have a warranty on the CPU (which may/may not be of any concern). There's no denying, however, that you can get a lot of capability for very little cost with the older technology systems you can buy on e-bay. Quote Link to comment
wisem2540 Posted September 26, 2016 Author Share Posted September 26, 2016 The used E5-2670's are indeed an excellent value and have very good performance. A single 2670 has a PassMark of 12426, a pair score 18531 ... and you can indeed buy a motherboard plus a pair of 2670's at a very attractive price. HOWEVER, be aware that you're buying CPU's that were released nearly 5 years go, with a TDP of 112w (224w for a pair) ... and the supporting chipsets aren't nearly as efficient as those built for the newer generation processors. Overall, the power consumption will be appreciably higher than current generation system, and the cooling needs signifcantly more aggressive. If the size of the chassis and motherboard and the 4-generation older components aren't of concern, it's indeed a very cost effective way to build a system with a lot of cores and pretty high Passmark. I wouldn't really compare it to an i7-based setup ... if you're going to compare it to a new system, I'd at least use an equivalent server-grade comparison => e.g. either an E3-1280 v5 (PassMark 10502, ~ $600); or an E5-1650v3 (PassMark 13467, ~ $600). Yes, the newer setup would cost a few hundred more ... but it would use FAR less power (especially at idle); support all of the newest technologies; use much faster memory; and have a warranty on the CPU (which may/may not be of any concern). There's no denying, however, that you can get a lot of capability for very little cost with the older technology systems you can buy on e-bay. Gary, I always look forward to reading your replies. I really was not aware that a second CPU did not double the passmark, so that is very informative. The size is not really a concern. I would be looking to put the rig into one of those 4U Norco or SuperMicro rackmount cases. I checked out 1151 boards that for the 6700k, and I could get one to handle 64GB of RAM and has 3 PCIe slots for about 110 after rebate. So, that is not terrible. Next question is how would I get 24 sata ports on this thing and still be able to do GPU passthrough? Is there a 16 port card that is affordable? Thanks Quote Link to comment
DZMM Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 I was in the same boat and even purchased two E5-2670s and 64GB of ram on eBay. However, I got cold feet for the reasons below and ended up getting a more modern CPU: - E5-2670 motherboards were in short supply in the UK and very expensive - roughly 1.5-2x the cost of a good X99 board. Was worried if something went wrong, replacement cost too high. - more modern tech. Again if my 2nd hand Xeon went bad, I'd have better replacement supply/options - modern motherboard and bios - easier for me to manage - all my other components are current gen, so better future proofing - most xeon mobos were SSI-EEB meaning limited chassis support - got myself a nice ATX case now -lower power consumption from running one CPU not two All in all I spent around £100-150 more I think for a more versatile machine with lower running and replacement costs. Quote Link to comment
wisem2540 Posted September 26, 2016 Author Share Posted September 26, 2016 DZ, Thanks. That 2683 can be had for around 300 on ebay, with a passmark of over 17,000. Using the same board you have at 229, rather than the dual socket board would make the price about the same. From a power standpoint, I dont think I am saving much, but its certainly a more modern CPU. I like it Quote Link to comment
DZMM Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 DZ, Thanks. That 2683 can be had for around 300 on ebay, with a passmark of over 17,000. Using the same board you have at 229, rather than the dual socket board would make the price about the same. From a power standpoint, I dont think I am saving much, but its certainly a more modern CPU. I like it I got mine for £283. I lost track of how much I spent in the excitement around finally ordering, and I had a cheaper gigabyte board in my spec to start with that was DOA. I only got 32GB of ram though for £100, whereas I got 64GB (overkill) for the same on ebay. But, again I got new ram Vs 2nd hand - in this setup only the CPU is 2nd hand and easier to replace if somethign goes wrong in the future. I definitely feel like I got a better system. Quote Link to comment
garycase Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 ... I definitely feel like I got a better system. I'd agree => 3 generations newer; 14 cores in a single CPU with a PassMark nearly as high as two of the 2670's [17955 vs. 18531 ... only 3% lower], DDR4 memory support, and far more efficient supporting chipsets. And FAR better choices of good motherboards in much smaller form-factors than those that support dual 2670's => you can even get min-ITX boards for this !! (although you wouldn't want to in this case, since you'll want the extra memory slots and expansions sockets that an ATX form factor will provide] There's nothing "wrong" about buying the 2670's -- you can indeed built a very nice system for a notably lower cost than you could with new gear. I'm particularly impressed at how low the old registered memory modules are selling for ... you can easily build a system with 64GB (or even more) of memory for very little $$ I was indeed intrigued when all of these CPU's & memory modules became available on e-bay at such low prices ... and like many thought a lot about jumping in -- but in the end simply decided I didn't want to use the older technology. It's kind of like buying used luxury card => You can buy a new high-end Mercedes for ~ $80,000 (or more); a nice 2-3 yr old one (off-lease) for about half of that; or a 10-year old one with a lot of miles (often > 150,000) for under $10,000. Under $10k is indeed a very good value for such a well-made car; but there are a LOT of much nicer features on the newer versions, and if anything goes wrong with the older car, it's going to be a big hassle to get it fixed. In that example, I'd look at the off-lease deals, and decide between one of those and a new car ... but wouldn't really even consider the older ones. [Granted this isn't a perfect analogy, since there aren't mechanical issues with older electronics like a car would have; but I think you get the idea.] Quote Link to comment
DZMM Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 [Granted this isn't a perfect analogy, since there aren't mechanical issues with older electronics like a car would have; but I think you get the idea.] No, it's a good one and what swayed me! My wife has a used BMW X5 and it looks and performs lovely, but the maintenance bills are sickening and we are going to change it for exactly this reason. I was struggling to find supply of the motherboards I wanted at decent prices, and the SSI-EEB form factor was having a knock-on effect on what case I could buy. I wondered, if I can't find a motherboard now, what would it be like in a year or two if I had a failure and what would be the cost? The point hit home when my X99 gigabyte board was DOA - I just went online and ordered a new motherboard, that was only launched in JUNE, on Amazon Prime and it arrived the next day. I could have chosen from dozens, whereas if it'd been a Socket-2011 I might have had problems. Quote Link to comment
chip Posted September 29, 2016 Share Posted September 29, 2016 Another one to add to the picture - Intel Xeon E5-2630 Quote Link to comment
wisem2540 Posted September 29, 2016 Author Share Posted September 29, 2016 Chip, E5-2630 V4 is 200 on ebay. With a 14,000 passmark, it may be a very good contender indeed! Thanks so much Quote Link to comment
chip Posted September 29, 2016 Share Posted September 29, 2016 Read this article - http://www.techspot.com/review/1218-affordable-40-thread-xeon-monster-pc/ looks like they tested with the ones with the 'SR2R7' stepping and prices of those are $500+ now so not sure on the $200 SR12R ones. I am going to email the one posting to see if this board will work with it - ASRock X99 Extreme3 LGA 2011-v3 Intel X99 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard Quote Link to comment
Waltm Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 I've been looking at the same ones on ebay as I'm planning my first build. It seems all the SR12R say they are remarked QHVK. I haven't been able to find anything on that yet so please post back what you find. Quote Link to comment
chip Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 Not sure yet - not finding any good info. e5-2630 v4 - http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Xeon/Intel-Xeon%20E5-2630%20v4.html Looking at other models from this sheet - https://www.servethehome.com/intel-xeon-e5-2600-v4-broadwell-ep-launched/ an e5-2650v3 might be another option. Looks like these are ES as well. Intel Xeon E5 2650 V3 ES 2.1GHz Processor Processor Type - Intel Xeon E5 2650 V3 ES Multi-Core Technology - 10 Core Processor Socket - LGA2011-3 CPU Clock - 2.1GHz TDP - 105W Cache - 25MB Threads - 20 L3 Cache - 25MB Quote Link to comment
MrLeek Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 Really interesting thread and perfectly timed as I start looking at my upgrade. I also have to keep this somewhat sensible (both in spec and in price) - the original idea of a pair of e5-2670s at the heart of an upgrade pushed the price over £1000. At first glance e5-2683 v3 will pull together around £750 or so. Sorry - I've got nothing useful to add (yet). But you've got at least one active reader on this topic. Quote Link to comment
wisem2540 Posted October 1, 2016 Author Share Posted October 1, 2016 Read this article - http://www.techspot.com/review/1218-affordable-40-thread-xeon-monster-pc/ looks like they tested with the ones with the 'SR2R7' stepping and prices of those are $500+ now so not sure on the $200 SR12R ones. I am going to email the one posting to see if this board will work with it - ASRock X99 Extreme3 LGA 2011-v3 Intel X99 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard Can you comment on the difference between SR2R7 and SR12R? Seems like I read one does not support passthru. Can you elaborate? Quote Link to comment
chip Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 I don't know in regards to difference between SR2R7 and SR12R... But there seems to be alot of discussion on different CPUs here - https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/es-xeon-discussion.5031/ Lots of good discussions ..... Also some CPU info in a chart - http://www.dokitv.com/intel-xeon-e5-v3-v4-series.html Quote Link to comment
garycase Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Read this article - http://www.techspot.com/review/1218-affordable-40-thread-xeon-monster-pc/ looks like they tested with the ones with the 'SR2R7' stepping and prices of those are $500+ now so not sure on the $200 SR12R ones. I am going to email the one posting to see if this board will work with it - ASRock X99 Extreme3 LGA 2011-v3 Intel X99 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard Can you comment on the difference between SR2R7 and SR12R? Seems like I read one does not support passthru. Can you elaborate? The article you linked to indeed makes a good case for the SR2R7 being a good choice for a core-heavy high-performance dual Xeon setup ... HOWEVER, they do NOT do any testing with regards to virtualization, and thus there's no indication as to whether or not this stepping supports pass-through. That, of course, is the risk you get with ES versions of the processors ... the only way to really know "for sure" what features they support is to either try it yourself or find somebody who has done so and published the results. Do you remember where you read the comparison of the two steppings you mentioned (SR2R7 and SR12R) ?? Quote Link to comment
wisem2540 Posted October 4, 2016 Author Share Posted October 4, 2016 Gary, I believe what I read was in reference to the 2670. Basically the ES version does not support passthru. Quote Link to comment
JonathanM Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Gary, I believe what I read was in reference to the 2670. Basically the ES version does not support passthru. Some do, some don't. ES isn't a specific silicon layout, it's a generic label that is applied to many versions. Quote Link to comment
garycase Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Agree -- the problem with the engineering samples is there are so many variants => they may have missing features; may run at slower clock speeds than the retail versions (this is fairly common -- so don't expect the PassMark shown in the charts to be an accurate measure of performance); and may have other "tweaks" that were being adjusted as the design was being finalized. They can be VERY good deals ... or they can be nearly useless, depending on just you need them for and what features your specific CPU has. Quote Link to comment
chip Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Yeah I am seeing some of that from reading through serverthehome post I posted. Also seems that some of the ebay sellers are not listing the items accurately. Quote Link to comment
MrLeek Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Possibly the tricky problem I'm having so far with this is narrowing down the range of options to the sensible (in terms of price/performance/longevity/ease to acquire). I can only speak for the UK but (for instance) E5-2670s tend to pop up fairly regularly on eBay. You have to watch for the specifics in the advert (AIUI SR0H8 is NOT the preferred option - it should be SR0KX) but otherwise there are sellers with solid reputation votes. But, as others have pointed out, it's an old processor now. Other processors? Well, there's a massive range out there....and working through that is a real challenge. Going to have a wrestle with the servethehome thread that chip linked and see if that helps narrow things down for me. Quote Link to comment
morti Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 did no one mention ther 2683w v3 yet? How come? there are multiple sellers, ES and non ES in different continents and the prices aren't all that high. SR1XH supports vt-d http://www.cpu-world.com/sspec/SR/SR1XH.html Quote Link to comment
chip Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 I am still digging and looking around to see what I want. I may go with a Intel Xeon E5-2658 V3 ES QEYF 12Core Quote Link to comment
JustJoshin Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 I put together a dual E5-2670 build earlier in the year and can comment on those cpus. Some of the other server chips mentioned don't turbo as high on all cores or when several cores are being used at the same time. Not a problem for server workloads but a bit more problematic for gaming if this is something you or any readers might want to be doing. So it really depends on what you want to do with the pc. I don't think you mentioned? Basically I'd say if it wasn't for gaming virtual machines then some of those are good / probably better options now. Especially the E5-2683 v3 I think. I myself run: Crashplan, Plex, Couch Potato, Sonarr, my primary windows 10 VM for software development and gaming and my wife's windows 10 vm. I have a Fury Nitro in my VM and a 280x in my wife's VM so she can do a bit of light gaming as well. DX 12 / vulkan games obviously make better use of the increased core count and lower core frequencies compared to DX 11 games. Having said that, DX 11 performance on my Fury is still fantastic albeit a little bit limited in DX 11 games due to the 3 GHZ turbo on all cores. I wouldn't want to go any lower on the clock speed if gaming was one of the tasks you would be expecting the the machine to do though. I just thought I'd throw this out there for anybody that might be reading this wondering about the E5-2670 build and does a bit of gaming. Does anybody know what the all core turbo speed of the E5-2683 v3 is? Quote Link to comment
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